Oh boy, another one of “those” posts. Well, not it isn’t. I’m not going to jump into the long lasting and ultimately pointless debate about EMS workers being armed. I’ll leave that to greater minds than mine. What I am going to talk about is the growing likelihood that EMS workers are going to run into patients who are legally armed. Nationwide more and more people are obtaining concealed carry permits and buying hand guns for self defense.
Among the fastest growing group of new gun owners is women, especially young women.
All of which means that there is an ever growing chance that one of your patients is going to be carrying a hand gun. Which means that EMS systems need to start thinking about how to deal with this type of situation. Here are some questions that you and your bosses should be asking.
1) Can you deny care to a patient merely because they are carrying a firearm?
2) If you decide that the patient needs to disarm, who become responsible for the safety and security of the firearm?
3) Does your local police agency have a policy in place for securing firearms that are NOT evidence in a crime?
4) What about the hospitals to which you transport? Hospitals, at least in my area, have no weapons policies. What they don’t seem to have is a policy to secure firearms that belong to patients. Since patients often don’t have time to secure their firearms, how do the hospitals handle this when a patient presents with a firearm?
5) Should “Do you have a firearm on you?” become part of your scene safety procedure?
I think that your answers to these questions might change depending on your own comfort level, local laws, system policies, and other variables.
So, what do you think? I look forward to your replies in the comments section.
1) I am a paramedic in a small town in Canada and yes we can deny care to a patient because the are carrying a firearm. It creates a unsafe situation for us. But in Canada that is a rare issues. The most likely case would be a hunter and we could let a friend take the weapon or call the police to secure it. I can see some of our paramedics who have been hunters most of their lives take the firearm in the front of the rig with them and give it to the police when they can (rather than leaving it in the open for anyone to take)
2,3,4) The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP our national and main police force in the small towns) does take over weapons and secures them in their detachments/offices. I have done cardiac arrests where there were rifles in the house. The RCMP secured them and handed them off to a family member with the right credentials.
5) In Canada it is rare for someone to have a gun on them in normal circumstances. We do not issue concealed weapon permits and people do not walk with them in the street. Hunters are what we would mostly encounter and in these cases I would ask if they are armed and where the firearm is to make sure it won’t hurt anyone.
Being in Canada we do not see a lot of gun crime or people carrying concealed weapons. It is not aloud or needed for the most part. The RCMP (and most local forces) do have policies and experience in deal with guns in a non criminal setting. If they have the right paperwork and are a family member they will let them take responsibility for the weapon. If not they will secure it themselves till someone arrives who can take responsibility for it. In the small towns most people have rifles for hunting so this it is not as rare as you would think in Canada.
These are all very good questions and should have been answered long ago. In essence, I think it should all come down to safety: How safe is a given situation for caregivers in any form (EMS, police, etc.)?
If a mentally fit patient with a broken leg carries a gun in a safe way, should you want to separate them? I think not.
If a gangmember (including homies) with a gunshotwound carries a gun? I think you don’t want to come near to the patient.
So here it goes:
1) Yes, if safety is a concern.
2) I think that would be the person doing the disarming
3) Rarely used in my country (The Netherlands)
4) If the gun is no safety issue (safety on, in holster, that sort of thing), why should you treat it any different than any other possession? (If this seems too easy, ask yourself what policy you have for pocketknives)
5) Depending on state/area: Why not? I think this should be all about safety.
Back in the 70’s in Florida, we gave them to the LEO when they showed up… And I think you’re right ‘most’ hospitals don’t have a procedure… 8 years ago, I actually had to leave the ER in bad pain, to go secure my pistol because I’d forgotten I had it on; but the up side I was seen IMMEDIATELY when I came back in.
Al Capone is reputed to have said, “You get far more accomplished with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.”
I put it in the car… 🙂